You have just entered room "Chat 16167862083422855268."
kabev1 has entered the room.
starkiller76: Hey everyone. Lets wait a few minutes for the rest to log on.
Eceguru has entered the room.
Eceguru: hi
x V DoGG x: ok'
sudigh has entered the room.
sudigh: Hello
x V DoGG x: anyone have any ideas for an agenda
x V DoGG x: before we beging
x V DoGG x: beging = begin
sudigh: lets discuss hw2.
x V DoGG x: i didn't hear anything back from anyone....
Abhi327 has entered the room.
sudigh: I put in the agenda in wiki about discussing hw2.
x V DoGG x: cool
x V DoGG x: thansk
Abhi327: i just updated the agenda
Abhi327: hello everyone
Eceguru: hi
starkiller76: BTW I reposted the wiki pages in a simpler format today.
x V DoGG x: cool
Abhi327: yes it looks good
Abhi327: thanks dave
starkiller76: no prob
Abhi327: ok the agenda has been updated
x V DoGG x: yeah.... wow...
x V DoGG x: quite a bit
x V DoGG x: thanks abhi
Abhi327: no probs.....
Abhi327: lets keep it short today
Abhi327: in view of the midterm
Eceguru: sounds good
starkiller76: i agree
Abhi327: where is vivek ? our host :-)
x V DoGG x: yep
Abhi327: shall we start
x V DoGG x: i am here!
x V DoGG x: lets go!
x V DoGG x: #1
x V DoGG x: discuss hw2 solutions
You have just entered room "Chat 16167862083422855268."
x V DoGG x: sorry
x V DoGG x: i must have just been kicked out and jumped back in
starkiller76: Why don't we exchange HW2 via email. It will be easier to discuss if we all have the documents.
Eceguru: i agree
x V DoGG x: ok
starkiller76: posting on wiki is ok with me also
kabev1: let's post
x V DoGG x: should we table hw2 until the next meeting
Eceguru: should we exchange the documents and look them over for a while before we spend time talking about them in one of our meetings
starkiller76: might be wise
x V DoGG x: when we all have put them up and read them over
Eceguru: think so
x V DoGG x: ok
sudigh: Ok.
illinimarshke: i can post the hw solutions
x V DoGG x: i will take that as a "yes" unless i hear someone disagree
Abhi327: lets not discuss any implementation
illinimarshke: if everyone e-mails them to me
Abhi327: at all today
Eceguru: i agree with abhi
Abhi327: i don't think its possible to discuss
Abhi327: everything in a teammeeting
Abhi327: we should exchange our homework
Abhi327: and read it up on it
x V DoGG x: yes, and we can set some time aside next meeting to clear up any confusion that arrises
x V DoGG x: ok #2
Abhi327: #2 on the agenda is related to #1
x V DoGG x: ummmmm
x V DoGG x: ok, i kinda see those as seperate items, don't you think....
kabev1: Suggestion: Let's get an agenda up by Friday so we can have items researchedd
x V DoGG x: our strategy is probably at a higher level
sudigh: ok.
Abhi327: sounds good.
Eceguru: k
Abhi327: we need to research as a team
Abhi327: the existing p2p projects.
Abhi327: most of them are open source and available
sudigh: yes, I agree with Abhi.
Abhi327: that should give us an insight
Abhi327: of what we are attempting to do
x V DoGG x: ok, should we divide them up or are you implying that we should each look at all of them?
Abhi327: i think we should each look at it.
Eceguru: how about we divide them up and then report back to the team
illinimarshke: sorry to change topics for a minute, but has anyone talked to guru?
Abhi327: Nope
sudigh: Abhi, uv listed 4 URLs , how about pairs taking up one and understanding it.
x V DoGG x: Perhaps everyone should look at them, and we should divide them up as far as a "champion" for each one that will look at specific ones in detail.
x V DoGG x: nope
Eceguru: i agree with the champion idea
Abhi327: that is fine with me. but the 4 urls together will probably make things more clear than just reading up on one
x V DoGG x: i agree with champion with pairs....
Abhi327: yes agreed
x V DoGG x: yes, i agree we should look at all of them
Abhi327: that is a good idea
Eceguru: i think the champion will allow more depth
sudigh: reading all 4 would require lot of time.
Abhi327: the more you research
x V DoGG x: but each team should be in charge of a specific one
Eceguru: but at least skim the other ones
Abhi327: we'll all have a better idea
x V DoGG x: ok, so i am not sure if we are all going for the same thing....
x V DoGG x: so lets take a quick vote
x V DoGG x: if you want the "Champion, with pairs, and do a breif reading of all" idea
x V DoGG x: type A
Eceguru: A
starkiller76: I have no problem looking at all 4
x V DoGG x: if everyone should read all of them to the same level of detail type B
x V DoGG x: A
illinimarshke: A
starkiller76: B
Abhi327: B
Abhi327: I presume none of us are champions at distributed p2p networks
Eceguru: you can't abstain
kabev1: A
starkiller76: Ok how should we pair up
x V DoGG x: same as last time?
Eceguru: that's fine with me
Abhi327: lets switch pairs.
illinimarshke: lets switch
Eceguru: k
Abhi327: that way everyone gets to work with others
illinimarshke: since i can't reach guru
Eceguru: good idea
kabev1: Vivek and I will stay
x V DoGG x: we work down the hall from each other
x V DoGG x: it just seems to make sense
x V DoGG x: to meet in person since we can so easily
Eceguru: i'm only across the road :-)
Abhi327: if we are going to follow XP, we'll have to switch pairs
x V DoGG x: we can be the team of 3
x V DoGG x: if thats cool
Eceguru: we do need a team of 3 if guru can't be found
sudigh: guru stays in India, I am not sure how we can collaborate with him.
sudigh: 12 hrs is just way too much
Abhi327: I think one of us should take it as a task
Abhi327: and send out an email to him
Abhi327: asking him when we can reach him
illinimarshke: i tried to reach hom for hw2
illinimarshke: but he didn't respond
Eceguru: as did i
illinimarshke: so i ended up doing it myself
Abhi327: thats not right.
Abhi327: lets take it up with the TA
Abhi327: let them know we have a problem
x V DoGG x: abhi, i agree that we will need to switch around at some point... but the prof said that it doesn't work well in a distributed manner... thus keep in mind that we may have to make certain sacrifices
sudigh: It makes sence that he be with a team in India.
Eceguru: so we'll have 3 groups for right now then
x V DoGG x: ok
x V DoGG x: sounds good
starkiller76: Fine
x V DoGG x: so lets have the remaining 4 people pair up, so we can move to the next item
Abhi327: i'll talk to Howard regarding it.
x V DoGG x: cool, thanks abhi
Eceguru: thanks for taking it up abhi
Abhi327: no prob.
Abhi327: just one more thing
Abhi327: regarding #2
Eceguru: how do we want to split up the parts
Abhi327: the URL's are mere pointers. There is plenty of information available on the internet. I looked it up quite extensively. Probably the teams can look for gnutella protocol and related projects.
x V DoGG x: Issac, Kabe, & Vivek - will do gnuetella
x V DoGG x: ohhhhh
x V DoGG x: so they aren't 4 different projects?
Abhi327: gnutella
Abhi327: is a protocol
Abhi327: and there are a number of projects
Abhi327: implementing it
sudigh: Are we using Gnutella ?
Abhi327: the one i sugges we all look at
x V DoGG x: i am glad that was cleared up....
Abhi327: is Qtella
Abhi327: the reason
sudigh: Abhi, are we using gnutella ?
Abhi327: is that it is implemented in C++
Abhi327: and Qt on Linux
Abhi327: No sudipta
Abhi327: This is why we are doing the research
Abhi327: So we know what we want to use
sudigh: then why do we need to read about gnutella ?
Abhi327: that is agenda #3:-)
x V DoGG x: abhi - So do we actually have a list of projects that we can split up to look at? or do we still need to come up with that list?
sudigh: Oh, ok thanks, got it.
Abhi327: i ahve a list
Abhi327: i can email it to the group
Abhi327: infact
Abhi327: i can post a link right now
x V DoGG x: ok
x V DoGG x: perhaps we should look at that list and split it up for research
Eceguru: yeah
x V DoGG x: i was under the impression that the 4 links were the 4 projects you were recommending we research further....
Abhi327: ok let me get the url
sudigh: sure, sounds good.
Abhi327: http://www.gnutelliums.com/
kabev1: So we are already set on C++ right? or can we explore Java?
starkiller76: How many of us have Java experience?
Eceguru: i have some
kabev1: I have java exp
illinimarshke: i have more java skill
x V DoGG x: i do
x V DoGG x: i have both equally
sudigh: No java please.
Abhi327: I am not too experienced using Java. My feeling was that the project itself had quite a few technical challenges and if some of us are not too experienced using Java, it'll be even harder.
starkiller76: I am not that experienced in Java either
Eceguru: is most of the source code in c already
illinimarshke: i think java is a bit easier though
Eceguru: c++ i mean
x V DoGG x: welll, i would go with which ever language most of us are expirienced under
sudigh: I dont like Java :-)
Abhi327: Yes all of it
Abhi327: is implemented in C++
Abhi327: for Qtella Client
Eceguru: i think we should stick with c++ then
x V DoGG x: having done both (QT & Java) I would say that if you are fluent in OO programming, java should be a breeze to pickup
Abhi327: Different clinets have used different languages for development.
x V DoGG x: it is very similar to the QT APIs
kabev1: http://www.jxta.org/
illinimarshke: what about dev on linux?
x V DoGG x: well, does everyone have access to a qt dev. enviornment?
Eceguru: i don't
Eceguru: what is needed
x V DoGG x: that is a feat in itself sometimes (if you don't have a linux box)
sudigh: Inst QT a bunch of C++ libraries for developing GUI ?
Eceguru: i can setup a linux box
Abhi327: Lets stick to the agenda people
Abhi327: its in the agenda
Abhi327: #5 or #6
starkiller76: a plus with java is that we can also develop gui interface with it, right? We wouldn't need QT
Eceguru: k
x V DoGG x: ok
x V DoGG x: so perhaps we should table
x V DoGG x: splitting up the projects until we have picked a dev. platform
Abhi327: Ok what pairs will look at what projects.
x V DoGG x: abhi - since the projects are very directed to what language we use.... i don't think we should pick them quite yet... agree?
x V DoGG x: we can go ahead an pair up....
x V DoGG x: so far we have issac, kabe, & vivek....
Abhi327: Lets divide based on who knows what language. Lets use the champion concept. Lets get an idea of what kind of work are we talking about. People expereicnced in Java shold look at a java implementation and like. What do you say ?
Eceguru: agreed
Abhi327: All of us can then come back and talk in generic terms
sudigh: I would like to go for C++ please
Eceguru: we'll decide that at a later time
x V DoGG x: sudigh - we can take a vote on langugage later (item 5 or 6)
sudigh: But isnt picking a proj depends on what language we know ?
x V DoGG x: our group (kabe, issac, and myslef) will cover java ones
illinimarshke: we need something like eaxmple 2 here http://www.openp2p.com/pub/a/p2p/2002/ 01/11/jabber_bots.html
sudigh: or like to use ?
x V DoGG x: yes...
x V DoGG x: but with a group so large
x V DoGG x: i don't think everyone will get their first choice
illinimarshke: the language doesn't really matter right now, we can find existing p2p projects in any language
Abhi327: lets breeze through the rest of the agenda and we'll talk about it more
Eceguru: yes
starkiller76: sounds good
Abhi327: ok we have a java group
x V DoGG x: ok... can the rest of everyone please pair up
x V DoGG x: or should i just stop asking... :-)
starkiller76: we can take a vote on the language next week, after everyone has presented their case
Abhi327: sudipta, how about qtella and Gtk-Gnutella
sudigh: sure abhi.
Abhi327: alright we'll shoot for those two
sudigh: sounds good.
Abhi327: i agree with dave
x V DoGG x: ok that still leaves one group
starkiller76: that leaves kevin and I, what do we have again
Abhi327: Pick a project based based on ur language of proficiency
x V DoGG x: yes....
x V DoGG x: if your language is listed on the page abhi sent out
x V DoGG x: pick a couple projects other than the ones abhi did
starkiller76: OK
Abhi327: or you can pick all:-)
starkiller76: I'll probably read all 4, I need all the exposure I can get in the P2P area
x V DoGG x: ok
starkiller76: Plus, I'm married I have no life
x V DoGG x: so are we clear
starkiller76: clear
Eceguru: lol
Abhi327: On to #3
Eceguru: i think that's part of what we'll be researching
Eceguru: as well
x V DoGG x: yes
x V DoGG x: i agree
x V DoGG x: lets come back to that next week
Abhi327: yes
x V DoGG x: #4
Abhi327: agreed
x V DoGG x: ok...
x V DoGG x: so much for that
x V DoGG x: #5
Abhi327: Yes
Eceguru: what was the response about using xp
Abhi327: i had sent out an email
Abhi327: to Howard
x V DoGG x: anything back?
Abhi327: after our team meeting last week
Abhi327: The course staff
Abhi327: has concerns about us using XP.
Abhi327: the only thing he said was that if we do not follow XP
illinimarshke: i would think rup would be easier to follow
Abhi327: it will directly reflect on our grades. In the past, distributes groups have used XP
illinimarshke: and prove that we followed it
Abhi327: and i have been part of one of those
Eceguru: well, we can tailor our process as needed
starkiller76: I think we should vote. Either now or next meeting.
Abhi327: and we did very well on our project as well
Abhi327: I think this boils down
x V DoGG x: lets discuss for 3-4 minutes
x V DoGG x: and then vote
x V DoGG x: so everyone can present their cases
Abhi327: to what we really really want to use for the project. We should be able to follow the process we choose and be able to demonstrate it.
Abhi327: I think for our type of project, too much planning and documentation is a waste
Abhi327: We need to start having something to work. We already are investing a good amount of time on the design
starkiller76: But, we have to document for our assigments anyway
Eceguru: true
Abhi327: So it isn't like we completely blinded and going in with no design.
Abhi327: XP by no means is ad-hoc.
Abhi327: What does everyone feel ?
sudigh: one question
Abhi327: Can we work as an XP group or not ?
Abhi327: What we'll document
starkiller76: I still have reservations about pair programming, being so distributed
illinimarshke: i think xp is less useful to use in real projects so i'd rather practice rup
Abhi327: is posted on tonnes of webpages out there.
Abhi327: there is nothing more to document
sudigh: sinec we mentioned in the project plan that we'll we following XP, now if we decide of following RUP will it affect our grades in the project ?
sudigh: or is it a totally benign act ?
starkiller76: Keep in mind we can incorporate aspects of XP into RUP in order to enhance our process
Eceguru: i agree with dave
Abhi327: We need to explore that further. Lets not assume anything.
Abhi327: I'll put that as another thing we would like to ask our course staff
starkiller76: OK
Eceguru: ok abhi
x V DoGG x: i guess thats ok
x V DoGG x: but... the prof did mention that
x V DoGG x: we could "create a process" implying some sort of hybrid
Eceguru: yeah, we can tailor it as we go
x V DoGG x: middle ground among XP and RUP
Abhi327: ok lets make sure
Eceguru: as long as we provide a rationale for it
Eceguru: it was in the last lecture i think
illinimarshke: i think as far as grading, they would like us to follow a process
starkiller76: So put off a vote, till next week until we hear back from Howard
x V DoGG x: i like XP, since it doesn't require extraneous docs....
Abhi327: Yes with XP, one of the principles is you tailor the process, bend it according to you needs
x V DoGG x: i thought we did hear back from howard
illinimarshke: not just make our own hodge podge of methods
sudigh: I too feel that they would expect us to follow a process.
x V DoGG x: or are you referring to the new questions as far as a hybrid process
Eceguru: we'll be needing a tailored process anyways
starkiller76: YES
Eceguru: no process is right for every project
x V DoGG x: i agreee...
x V DoGG x: ok... so are we ready to take a vote
x V DoGG x: or do we still need more discussino?
Abhi327: Yes. No hybrids please. Lets start witha process and then tailor it accordingly
illinimarshke: lets just vote
Abhi327: Would everyone want to wait
Eceguru: more discussion i think
illinimarshke: we need to decide something tonight
x V DoGG x: Start off with: RUP = A, XP = B, Need more time = C
illinimarshke: A
Abhi327: i'll pose the same questions to Howard
kabev1: B
Abhi327: See what he has to say
x V DoGG x: B
Eceguru: we need to know we won't lose points be changing
starkiller76: A
Abhi327: B
sudigh: Sudipta B
x V DoGG x: i guess its XP and we can tailor it to fit our distrubted needs
x V DoGG x: ok
Abhi327: Yes
sudigh: Yes.
x V DoGG x: next item #6
illinimarshke: does anyone feel that xp is worthwile?
x V DoGG x: should we wait until we have picked a base project?
Abhi327: This could wait but i think everyone should give it a thought
sudigh: CVS is free, we can download it from the web on Linux.
Eceguru: let's start with XP and try to use it. if we have problems we'll use that as our rationale for tailoring it
Abhi327: something we need to follow up on
x V DoGG x: yeah, i agree with CVS
Abhi327: i agree
illinimarshke: what about sourceforge
Eceguru: is cvs like clearcase
Abhi327: cvs is very easy to use.
x V DoGG x: i think XP is very worthwhile... although we don't use it explicitly in my group
Abhi327: This is what i was thinking
x V DoGG x: in retrospect, all of our projects match up very closely
sudigh: yes it is like clearcase with less fecilities than CC, CC is more robust.
Eceguru: cvs sounds good
Abhi327: I'll buld a pair of linux boxes with CVS and wifi enabled.
x V DoGG x: it is great for a fast development team, that is of the same caliber
Abhi327: and give access to the rest of the team
Abhi327: this way
Abhi327: wnayone wanting to work
x V DoGG x: ok
Abhi327: can just telnet in
Abhi327: and work on it
illinimarshke: sourceforge is web based though
Eceguru: k
sudigh: does all those boses have the same static ip addr ? Abi
x V DoGG x: 'thats awesome
illinimarshke: which is alot easier
Abhi327: without having to install linux, CVS, wifi
Abhi327: this way
sudigh: boses = Boxes
sudigh: abi = Abhi
Abhi327: we have a standard development platform.
sudigh: are they on LAN ?
Abhi327: I am still building the second computer
Abhi327: they'll share a n/w hub
sudigh: Ok.
Abhi327: What does everyone feel ?
x V DoGG x: good with me
Eceguru: sounds good
x V DoGG x: that would be great
sudigh: I have LInux 7.2 on my PC, I'll work on my m/c, and transfer files as required.
starkiller76: good
x V DoGG x: same here
Abhi327: Good enough.
sudigh: because 7 of us trying to connect to the same IP addr would slow us down quite a bit
sudigh: cool.
Eceguru: what's next
x V DoGG x: thats it!
x V DoGG x: so for next time
Abhi327: Everyone
x V DoGG x: everyone needs to look into their respective projects
Abhi327: i also had the customer's viewpoint as part of agenda#3
starkiller76: OK
x V DoGG x: and we will pick language/platform & base project next meeting
sudigh: any idea what type of questions Prof Johnson asks in the exam ? This is my first course with him.
x V DoGG x: same here
Eceguru: hopefully we can start developign the system methapor
kabev1: And does anyone have the previous exams?
kabev1: He hasn't posted them at all yet
Eceguru: i don't think the previous exams are available
x V DoGG x: i haven't seen any up there yet... even though the prof mentioned they would be
sudigh: no prev exams are posted yet .
illinimarshke: i have one previous exam
Eceguru: hardcopy?
illinimarshke: i could e-mail it out
sudigh: Oh, great, please email that.
illinimarshke: no, html
Abhi327: if you know what he is talking about in the class, you'll do just fine.
kabev1: That would be AWESOME
starkiller76: that would be great
x V DoGG x: yes
x V DoGG x: please
illinimarshke: one sec
x V DoGG x: thank you!
Eceguru: thanks
sudigh: Thanks .
starkiller76: talk to you all next week. be safe
illinimarshke: its only the answers
Abhi327: GOOD LUCK Everyone !!
illinimarshke: but you can guess at the questions
Eceguru: thanks
sudigh: Good luck for the exam.
Eceguru: good luck to everyone
Abhi327: alright we still ahve one person doing the summary right ?
x V DoGG x: sure....i can volunteer
x V DoGG x: for this one
Abhi327: and vivek posting the transcript
x V DoGG x: yep
Abhi327: great
Abhi327: thanks vivek