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sudigh: abhi is joininh us.
x V DoGG x: anyone find a good application?
Abhi327: hello everyone
Eceguru: hi
Abhi327: sorry for being late
Abhi327: i am still at work
starkiller76: what about the jxta instant p2p program as a basic architecture?
sudigh: we are discussing on #2 of the agenda.
sudigh: yes, we can pick the jxta decentralised p2p architecture
x V DoGG x: same here
x V DoGG x: yeah thats cool
Eceguru: i think it looked good
x V DoGG x: i was just looking at another one
x V DoGG x: http://www.cs.vu.nl/pub/globe/cp2pc/
x V DoGG x: i didn't have a chance to look deep into it, but it seems to be a p2p file sharing application
Eceguru: looks like it will lay above jxrt to make it easier to code apps
sudigh: jxta p2p has peer groups and group sharing which is one of our requirements.
Eceguru: by using jxta, will the differences between wired and wireless clients be non-existent
sudigh: also we can get answers to our questions since it is an open source project.
sudigh: not sure.
x V DoGG x: the main question is "how do we discover" other nodes
x V DoGG x: that might be tricky
Abhi327: that would be depend on what protocol you use
sudigh: yes
Eceguru: i'm not sure but do wireless computers communicate directly to each other over the air or through their access points
Abhi327: gnutella uses a list of known hosts to broadcast to get a node to connect to a network
sudigh: that lies in the corelayer of jxta, we neednt worry much, we take the core layer as it is.
Abhi327: once it detects other nodes, it can access most other nodes.
x V DoGG x: or possibly we can use beacon sort of setup
sudigh: every host maintains cache of peer ids.
x V DoGG x: well, anyways back to the agenda
x V DoGG x: or we will never finish
Eceguru: ok
Abhi327: Eceguru: i think access point details are transparent to other computers on the n/w
x V DoGG x: i can add this topic to a future agenda if everyone agrees
Eceguru: think we should
x V DoGG x: ok
x V DoGG x: its on my list
Abhi327: vivek, we won't be able to do detailed design like this. Lets stick to the architecture
x V DoGG x: ok... cool
sudigh: so #3
starkiller76: this link summarizes JXTA wireless capabilites, it is geared toward J2ME but is still applicable for J2SEhttp://www.jxta.org/project/www/docs /JXTA4J2ME.pdf
x V DoGG x: did we pick an application for #2?
x V DoGG x: to use as a jumping board?
starkiller76: I say we stick with the instant p2p
sudigh: we can pick the jxta file sharing / chat any one of them.
x V DoGG x: Dave - does that app do any sort of file transfer?
x V DoGG x: or are you expecting that to be trivial once you have "discovered" another user
sudigh: Well, just a note.
Abhi327: lets not pick an application that does a lot more (e.g. chat....) than what we need it for. it'll confuse the heck out of us. lets keep it simple.
Abhi327: lets stick to an app that allows for file transfer using a decentralized topology
sudigh: Sun has something called CMS (content management system) service that is an application for generic file sharing.
sudigh: thst is open source as well.
sudigh: and it is developed on top of jxta decentralised p2p
Eceguru: instant p2p does have the ability to search
starkiller76: file transfer should be trivial, but don't hold me to that once we get going
Eceguru: in addition to sharing files
Abhi327: we definitely need the file search utility
sudigh: CMS also provides for download of files from peer to peer.
starkiller76: JXTA's website has a bunch of documentation geared towards intstant p2p, I think it would be easier for us to use and get help with if needed
sudigh: also provides for file search
Eceguru: i agree that we'll need documentation to figure things out
Abhi327: dave can you put that link on the chat window
Eceguru: that helps instant p2p
starkiller76: gimme a sec
Abhi327: yes i agree
Abhi327: it'll be really hard to re-engineer code to understand how it works esepcially with no tools available as of now. If we can find something with documentation, thats great....
starkiller76: http://www.jxta.org/project/www/white_pap ers.html
Abhi327: re-enginer = reverse-engineer
Eceguru: brb, have to use bathroom
Abhi327: thanks dave
sudigh: did you guys see the latest anouncement on wiki about project groups ? They are suggesting strongly for remote groups to go for RUP
starkiller76: the Project JXTA: Java Programmer's Guide is very useful
Abhi327: yes
Abhi327: i also have update from Howard on our questions
Abhi327: we'll do it at the end
sudigh: ok
x V DoGG x: should we all take a minute to read up on that web page
sudigh: so which application are we going for as a jump start ?
Abhi327: yes
x V DoGG x: dave - what specifically should we be looking at on this web page?
x V DoGG x: it seems to have a lot of jxta stuff all over it, where is the p2p instant messaging
Abhi327: p2p instant messaging ?
Eceguru: i'm back
starkiller76: http://instantp2p.jxta.org/servlets/ProjectHo me
starkiller76: this link summarizes the instant p2p
starkiller76: I am most interested in the searching and sharing of files
sudigh: instant p2p can be downloaded from http://downloads.jxta.org/easyinstall.
x V DoGG x: i would agree with dave, in that if we pick a simple instant app like this one
x V DoGG x: it will get us 75% of the p2p way, so we can find nodes and access them... after that it shouldn't be hard to build up the services that we need
Eceguru: i agree with that aproach
sudigh: here is a good url on jxta architecture. http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2001/ 04/25/jxta.html
x V DoGG x: dave - that link didn't work for me
x V DoGG x: i do agree we need to have a good baseline for doing searches across nodes. that way we don't have to worry about that piece (sounds kinda complicated)
x V DoGG x: to do it right....
x V DoGG x: ok, so are we going to go with instantp2p?
Eceguru: i think we should try it
x V DoGG x: The three options are: A) Instant P2P B) cp2pc C) CMS
sudigh: we'll try instant p2p, but I think we can also try a few others to see which one best suites our purpose.
x V DoGG x: ok does anyone disagree with going with p2p?
x V DoGG x: if not, we can move to #3
sudigh: I agree with p2p.
x V DoGG x: i think we need to split up the aspects of the application at this point for further research on what components already exist that can be reused in some way or another
Eceguru: i agree
starkiller76: agree
sudigh: I did some research on that
Abhi327: yes agreed
Eceguru: with a focus on discovery, searching, and file transfer
sudigh: agreed
x V DoGG x: are there any other components?
x V DoGG x: I would add presence to the list
sudigh: These are the core ones to start with.
sudigh: GUI can come later.
x V DoGG x: presence = finding a running application with a user that is willing to share
Eceguru: presense would be good
sudigh: u mean listening ?
starkiller76: I agree
Abhi327: presence is discovery
Abhi327: isn't it ?
x V DoGG x has left the room.
starkiller76: you scared him away Abhi
sudigh: presence would involve both discovery and advertisement, right?
starkiller76: :-)
Abhi327: can we narrow down our target apps to a list of 2 or 3 max at this point. Assign pairs to look at these to indentify how a particular component works and take it from there
Abhi327: :-)
starkiller76: I agree with Abhi
sudigh: I agree with abhi
Eceguru: you mean components or apps?
Eceguru: i thought we agreed on instant p2p
starkiller76: components right?
sudigh: I think we should expore a fe more apart from instant p2p.
sudigh: fe = few
Abhi327: issac, i feel we will benifit from looking at 2-3 target apps for each component. see how they work.
Abhi327: a pair will look at a particular component implemented in each target app.
Eceguru: now we're back to point #2
Eceguru: i think there are several apps that will work for us
Eceguru: we need to take 1 and get some code running
Eceguru: so we can get some iterations done before the end of the semester
Abhi327: right now, we are pretty much picking the target app without much knowledge of what would work best for us
Abhi327: yes but it wouldn't be too wise to start working off one only to realize that was an easier way to do it
Eceguru: well, the instant p2p does most of what we need at the lower level
Abhi327: i agree with you isssac
starkiller76: and the documentation it the best (So far)
Abhi327: i am just mentioning that we might want to explore just a little bit atleast for the next 2 -3 days or till our next meeting. it won't hurt. this time explore it at a component level than an appl. level
starkiller76: Abhi has a point
Eceguru: ok, but we need to finalize a decision on this point quickly
starkiller76: We can use more than one app to help us with our design/implementation
Eceguru: maybe a few more days won't hurt
Abhi327: itll give us a much beter insight if we understand how components work for > 1 app.
Eceguru: but we can't be talking about this next week
Abhi327: i agree with you
x V DoGG x has left the room.
Eceguru: how do we want to split up to investigate then
Eceguru: want to work together dave?
Abhi327: can we propose 2 -3 apps
starkiller76: sure isaAc
x V DoGG x has left the room.
Eceguru: apps to check out are instant p2p, CMS, and cp2cp
sudigh: agreed isaac
Abhi327: if we make pairs amongs ourselves, the rest of the team members not present might not participate at all in this kind of brainstorming it'll be better if we pick partners not present at the meeting and get in touch with them
Eceguru: who isn't present, kabe and kevin right
Abhi327: yes
Eceguru: i have a feeling vivek will want to work with kabe
Abhi327: ok.
Abhi327: that leaves myself kevin and sudipta
Eceguru: you want to be a group of 3
Abhi327: since honawad is no longer participating
Abhi327: works for me
sudigh: is guru out of our group ?
starkiller76: Vivek IM me. He will check the logs later.
Eceguru: ok
Eceguru: so what modules will we look at
Abhi327: ok
Abhi327: i will look at discovery
sudigh: is guru no more in our group ?
Eceguru: we have searching, discovery(and associated parts), and file transfer
Eceguru: we'll look at file transfers
Eceguru: if that's cool with you dave
Abhi327: sudipta is discovery ok ?
sudigh: sure.
starkiller76: that is fine with me
Abhi327: since we did the usecase for detecting, i thought we are better suited to do that.
sudigh: i have done some reading on discovery so that'll be even better for me
Abhi327: great
sudigh: :-)
Eceguru: alright, kabe and vivek can do searching then
Abhi327: ok
Abhi327: did we decide on apps : A) Instant P2P B) cp2pc C) CMS ?
sudigh: abhi, is guru not in our group anymore ?
Eceguru: we're going to look at how the 3 implement the components we broke into
sudigh: yes those are 3 apps we'll look into.
Abhi327: sudipta, yes and no. Howard recognizes that he hasn't been able to participate and he'll be taking up the issue with Dr. Johnson. For all practical purposes, we are a team of 7.
sudigh: ok
sudigh: can we talk a little on adotion of RUP/XP ?
Eceguru: i think we've gone through the agenda except for item #5
sudigh: adotion = adoption
Abhi327: Do we wanna talk about it right now or at the end of the
Abhi327: meeting
sudigh: i guess we covered all the items havnt we ?
Eceguru: to the most we can till we do more research
sudigh: Oh but for 5
Eceguru: i don't know much about #5
Eceguru: would netmeeting work
Abhi327: put that on the TO DO list for everyone.
Abhi327: jabber , netmeeting works
starkiller76: I agree with Isaac
starkiller76: I found a whiteboard, but have not tested it
Eceguru: how about the groups try to use a method, such as netmeeting, during the research
starkiller76: netmeeting would probably be better
Eceguru: and see the feedback we get
Abhi327: can't use netmeeting if using Linux. it'll be great if we can find something available across windows/linux. If we can't find it in the next couple of days,
Abhi327: Netmeeting crashes all the time
Abhi327: plus it sometimes has a lot of problems with conferencing
starkiller76: lets see what we can come up with by monday
Abhi327: agreed
sudigh: I use VNC all the time, and it works just great!
Eceguru: can you send a link to info on vnc
sudigh: sure.
starkiller76: or post it on wiki
Eceguru: that'd be better
Abhi327: even better.
sudigh: i'll post it on wiki.
sudigh: but abhi, I'm not sure if it works on LInux
sudigh: I'll find out
Abhi327: thanks.
starkiller76: Ok, Abhi what did Howard say about XP?
sudigh: it works cross platform on Solaris and Windows.
Abhi327: 5) and 6) for next meeing. module division and iteration planning.
Abhi327: yes
Abhi327: 1) No penalty for shifing to RUP
Eceguru: i think the modules will follow the research we do
sudigh: basically they are strongly suggesting us to use rup.
Abhi327: 2) Recommends RUP If we wanna use XP, must convince the course staff of what our strategy will be for following XP
Abhi327: please read the latest announcement from the course staff
Abhi327: summarizes it.
starkiller76: I personally think RUP would be alot easier, we would have documents to work off of
Eceguru: i think it'll be easier to prove what we do
sudigh: I think we can go for RUP. If documentation is the main concern, we are anyways doing a lot of that for our hws.
Eceguru: which will reflect in our grades
starkiller76: plus they are making us do most of the analysis and design anyway for HW
Abhi327: If its ok, i can start a document stating how XP practices will be followed by the group. exceptions, and the reasoning. The rest of the group can add to it .
sudigh: since they really want us to use RUP lets do so.
Abhi327: and we can put it before our course staff.
starkiller76: I vote RUP
starkiller76: I don't feel like fighting long distance with the course staff
Eceguru: me either
Abhi327: I really don't think it is much of a problem.
Abhi327: I asked him for the deliverables
Eceguru: how about abhi starts to put together how we'll follow XP
Abhi327: and he basically expects stuff like team meeting logs, tests running, code, summary of what we followed as part of our process and edxceptions.
starkiller76: The are going to look at us alot closer if we use XP
Eceguru: and we can see if it lokks doable
Abhi327: Yes i think we should do that.
sudigh: the deliverables look doable, some of them we are doing already.
Eceguru: maybe we can then look at what we need to do and discuss it on monday
Abhi327: This way everyone will be forced to think about the process. and we can give it a shot together.
sudigh: ok
Abhi327: We are not really arguing with the course staff. just presenting our case
starkiller76: We can vote on monday, sounds good
Abhi327: and i think we can make a good case
starkiller76: I just don't want to bet my grade on it
Eceguru: and let's try to get the course staff input by monday
Abhi327: i'll work on the document saturday and send it out sometime saturday
Abhi327: neither do i dave
Abhi327: i agree with you
sudigh: anything else ?
starkiller76: nope
Eceguru: don't think so
Abhi327: Ok we would like each pair to summarize their work
Eceguru: who wants to post the log
Abhi327: and send it out by Monday afternoon
Eceguru: ok
Abhi327: this will minimize writing on the chat window
starkiller76: sounds good, I will talk to you all on Monday
starkiller76: Have a good weekend!
sudigh: I can do it, but I am missing the starting part of the chat. I joined a bit late.
Abhi327: i can do it unless someones dying to do it :-)
Eceguru: its your abhi
Abhi327: same here.
Abhi327: issac, could you email me the log
Eceguru: sure
Abhi327: thanks.
Eceguru: alright bye all
starkiller76: I will volunteer for Monday's meeting
Abhi327: i'll post the log and the summary and the agenda for next time.
Abhi327: alrighty then.
starkiller76 has left the room.
sudigh: I'll add things to the agenda.
sudigh: ok
Abhi327: have a good weekend everyone....sudipta i'll leave you a message tomorrow so that we can get together and kevin too
sudigh: sure, sounds good.
sudigh: good night everybody.
Eceguru has left the room.